In the second part of our deep dive into data migration within the HE sector, James Blake and Steve Smales explore why data migration is essential for universities today. From legacy system upgrades to mergers, cloud adoption, and regulatory demands, they highlight the complexity of student, academic, and institutional data. The podcasts talks about not just the technical side but also the need for governance and long-term data maintenance. With real-world insights and a passion for enabling universities to focus on their core missions, they stress that successful data migration is foundational to future-ready higher education institutions.

In this episode, we discussed:

• System upgrades and moving to the cloud

• Data complexity unique to universities

• Mergers and integrating multiple data sets

• Regulatory reporting and national standards

• Why students (and staff) shouldn’t worry about bad data

• And how data migration can empower HE institutions

EPISODE TRANSCRIPTION:

Disclaimer: This transcript was generated by an AI tool that did its best, but it's never met different British accents it could fully decode. Expect a few funny mistakes. Enjoy!

[00:00] - James B

Hi there, welcome to the Binary10 Podcast. My name is James Blake, I'm the CEO of binary10.

[00:06] - Steve S

And my name is Steve Smales, and I am the Chief Operating Officer.

Welcome to the series of podcasts where we'd like to talk about all things data migration related.

[00:16] - James B

And also, we'll talk about the human side of running a business, so we hope you enjoy.

Here we are again.

Yeah. Yeah, looking forward to it. Another good one, this one.

And this is going to be, I think it's the second, isn't it?

[00:31] - Steve S

Second in our series, yeah.

[00:33] - James B

Second in the series of data migration within higher education.

I think the first one was really good, actually. And, you know, even when we talk through it, talking about all the challenges that higher education faces, you know, with data migration and those types of projects in general. But today I think we're going to look at, you know, why does higher education need data migration? You know, what is it there for? What's the purpose? And there's a few topics I think we're going to cover today that are really important.

And I just wanted to kick off. I mean, there's obviously the obvious one. I mean, you know, you only tend to need data migration when you're moving systems or upgrading systems.

And of course, we know that it's a common thing that happens in higher education. And specifically, we've been involved in a few projects over the last few years, similar sort of thing where, you know, their systems are coming out of use, coming out of support, they need to move to the cloud. And so, you know, data migration is a critical aspect of that, you know, as we've talked about many times, and we've talked about on other podcasts.

So for me, you know, it's a big thing within higher education. And in fact, we've even recently, really proud, we've joined up with UCISA, which is an organisation we're really excited about, because, you know, they put on lots of seminars, bring lots of universities together to discuss hot topics and things that impact them. And one of the things that we're passionate about, obviously, is data migration.

So it's going to be a great opportunity, I think, for us to, you know, visit these webinars, you know, go out there, meet the people in the industry, and really promote the importance of data migration, you know, especially with the challenges we talked about previously on funding, and all other things, and making sure that they do data migration right, and that they take it seriously, and, you know, put the right amount of effort around it. Hopefully, we can help, right? That's what we're here for. That's what we want to do.

So yeah, so I'll definitely kick off with that one, right? We know that, you know, there's going to be lots and lots of programs and projects. We're aware that, you know, higher education institutes are merging. You know, we're part of a project at the moment.

[02:33] - Steve S

Exactly, yeah, with the universities merging, obviously, you've got two sets of data; you need to bring them into one place, don't you?

[02:39] - James B

Absolutely. So there's going to be so many of these, you know, and obviously, what with, you know, the last sort of 5-10 years, the move to the cloud, you know, SaaS services, all that, you know, it's all the fad. And higher education is starting to catch up now.

You know, there's a lot of programs where they're requiring to do that. So yeah, it's extremely important. So yeah, that's the one I'll kick off with.

But Steve, there's lots of other reasons why they need it.

[03:01] - Steve S

Yeah, and I think, well, firstly, I think we should point out that UCISA stands for Universities and Colleges Information Systems Association.

[03:13] - James B

I'm glad you said that, because I didn't want to risk it.

I thought, I've said UCISA, but, you know, they get you, don't they, these higher education places? You have to know your acronyms and all the rest of it.

[03:18] - Steve S

Exactly, acronyms are a pain, aren't they? But no, it's good to know them. So yeah, I mean, that's great to be joining up with them.

But I think, you know, universities, higher education in general, have their own specific data. So they're going to have the essentials like a lot of businesses have. You're going to have finance data, you're going to have HR, payroll, that side of things.

But with the universities, with higher education, you've got a lot more sort of, I suppose, complex data as well around students. And also around management information, you're looking at sort of a lot of budgetary information. You're looking at a lot of information around the courses, how successful those courses, and how much they cost.

So there's a lot of management information needed by, you know, the decision makers as well. So that's on top of your standard data. But then you've got the student data as well, haven't you? So just all sorts of data to consider that's specific to higher education.

[04:09] - James B

Yeah, and God, not that it scares me, but it just makes me realise, again, you know, you've just talked, you've probably just picked four or five from your head there. But again, it makes you realise as well that, you know, doing data migration properly and getting it right is so important because a lot of that information you talked about there is taken for granted. And it should be, right? You know, the people within these institutions, you know, they're either students, you know, they're doing their courses, they're studying for degrees, PhDs, whatever it might be.

You know, God, their life, and we all know what it was like, you know, at that age and going through university, good times. But, you know, that's their focus. You know, their worry shouldn't be, is my data right? Is that accurate? Is this piece of information as it should be? Similarly to, you know, professors and other people within those, you know, even alumni, you know, and people that are connected to higher education.

You know, we don't want them to have to waste their time, you know, worrying about their data. You know, is it right? Is it accurate? Is it in the right place? You know, it's so important that whenever we do these activities, we do them well and sort of just enable them, empower them to do their daily lives, do the things that they're part of the HE organization for, you know. And so, yeah, I think that's where the passion really comes out.

You know, that's the meaning, isn't it? That's the tangible thing that is so important in higher education, that it's not about the data migration. It's not about the project, but it's making sure that that's done properly so that they can live out their lives, do what it is that they intended to do as part of these institutions and do them well. You know, we need to take that burden off them.

[05:40] - Steve S

Yeah, you know, I think there's all sorts of things. I mean, you mentioned students there and you hold all sorts of information on students. Probably universities hold more information on their students as individuals probably than any other organization in terms of the breadth of different types of information they hold on students.

It might be about their academic background prior to the university, the courses they're on, their health, their accommodation, all sorts of different things, because it's not, you know, it's not like a client as such. You're actually looking after their welfare as well. So, and, you know, students change every year.

So you've got a huge volume of data. The courses change every year. So there's massive amounts of data that's held on students throughout their entire time.

And then you mentioned alumni as well. So you've got ex-students as well. So there's huge amounts of data to consider.

[06:33] - James B

Yeah, and I think, you know, and it's also some of the downstream organisations as well, isn't it? You know, that all this data is obviously important for those people. But actually, you know, if you think about us as a country and how we run our academic practices and our HE sector, you know, central government, they want this information. They want access to this information so that, you know, or at least we hope they do.

And they should be prioritizing that and running analysis to see how we can better, you know, inform the HE sector and get them, you know, get it working more efficiently. So there's that to consider as well, isn't there? You know, data migration is essential so that we can make sure all the right data is in the right place and accessible, you know, not just to those institutions, but also, you know, as a country, you know, as part of the UK to make sure that we've got all the information that we need centrally to run analysis against these things. And I know, I think we might do another follow-up podcast where we're going to talk a bit more about standards and a bit more, you know, about those aspects in higher education as well, that maybe people don't always think about that there are these other institutions that govern, you know, the HE sector.

And data is just as important to them as it is to the individual sites.

[07:44] - Steve S

Yeah, I mean, absolutely. We've got Higher Education Statistics Agency, Office for Students as well.

So there's lots of regulatory things that we need to consider when we're talking about or thinking about data migration is not just what do you need in terms of getting your new processes up and running and working properly, but what do we actually need from a regulatory point of view as well? And what are the requirements for that?

[08:06] - James B

Absolutely. And data migration will benefit you there, right? I mean, we talked about it on our previous podcast about the landscapes of these institutions. You know, you can have many, many source systems with different data.

And in fact, a lot of the times, duplicate data, right, that are held on similar systems. So it's so important that data migration is executed properly to bring those data sets together into a single place that can be easily reported from. I mean, that just takes a bit.

I mean, I'm aware at the minute I've seen it in other higher education institutions where they have a whole team that spends many, many weeks of the year preparing data, merging it, transforming it into a certain format required for some of those institutions you've mentioned, you know, to provide the statistics. Oh, you know, whilst part of you, you know, goes, how frustrating, you know, what a waste of time. You know, the other part of me goes, we can do something about this.

You know, isn't this great? You know, that's a problem for me. We can absolutely improve that process. And that's where data migration can definitely help.

I mean, it's obviously linked into the design and the right systems. But get your data migration right, you know, and we'll talk about it a little bit more as well. I think we'll, you know, listen out for the next podcast because we'll talk about this.

But beyond data migration, you know, we will start to talk about data governance and data management. You know, it's a really important topic that because, yes, you know, the hard work is definitely getting the data there, getting it to the end game. But the harder work is keeping it there and keeping it well-oiled and keeping it valuable.

[09:36] - Steve S

That's a really good point, actually, because certainly the older the legacy system, the, I suppose, the more messy the data is and the bigger gaps you've got. And part of our job, part of our brief when we come in to do data migration for organizations is to fill in those gaps, correct the data, get it nice and clean, go into a new system so that you're starting your new system, your new processes with the data exactly as you want it to be or as good as it can be within sort of budgets and resourcing, you know, they allow. So what you don't want to do is spend all that effort getting nice, clean data going into your new system and then from day one, it starts to get messy again.

So you do need that governance.

[10:18] - James B

And you know, and let's really talk about this, you know, and we will, we'll pick it up in other podcasts, but it comes back to that funding issue, doesn't it? You know, that funding will be very dedicated on that project to move all their data into this new system to tick the boxes of, you know, legacy systems are going out of support, you know, we need to get with the times. But the funding consideration needs to be applied to the, well, what's the six months after that? What's plus one year after that? You know, for data, you know, what is the, what are we going to spend on data to keep it well-managed, well-oiled? And that should be being thought about at the start of these projects, not right at the end, because it's a waste of time if you do this project and you spend all your money and you think, yep, we've done it, we've hit our budget.

And then you have no budget to keep on top, keep that maintenance up for that data, because within six months, a year, it will start going backwards again. Yeah, and that's a really good point.

[11:07] - Steve S

Yeah, you're going to hit all the old problems that you've had on your legacy systems as well, aren't you, with data.

So it's time to be avoided.

[11:15] - James B

Absolutely, absolutely. Well, God, there's a lot we've gone through there.

So, I mean, I think, you know, I think to summarise, it's pretty obvious that, you know, in the short term and definitely longer term, you know, the HE sector is going to be crying out for data migration. You know, it's essential, it's going to be a key part, and we're going to keep talking about it. You know, we're going to keep focusing on it because, you know, we're passionate about data, but also really, you know, really passionate and partnering with the HE sector, especially over the last five years, where we've worked closely with them, you know, we've learned a lot.

And, you know, I mean, me personally, I'm sure you're the same. You know, I'm really keen to, you know, work with UCISA. I think that's really super exciting.

Yeah, looking forward to that.

And just to promote the message and, you know, really sort of, you know, empower these institutions to be ready for data migration and do it properly.

[12:03] - Steve S

Yeah, because it's been great, you know, having that experience with, you know, universities we've worked with so far and the other organisations linked to sort of student data as well.

It's given us an insight, specifically into higher education, that maybe other consultancies might not have had that exposure that we've had. And it is insightful, and we've learned a lot from that.

[12:22] - James B

Yeah, yeah.

And I suppose, you know, and we all say you should never assume, but again, you know, unfortunately, it's kind of, you know, these, the HE sector, I don't want to say it doesn't help itself, but because they're academic, because you hold them in such esteem, and we should, right? You know, the knowledge, you know, the individuals, the professors, you know, the students, I mean, they're the best of Britain, right? Yeah. These people. And so you just assume that, well, all their data will be perfect and everything else will be perfect.

But actually, you know, and that's no detriment to them, you know, their efforts, their energies are on what they do and the research they do and the learnings that they do. So, yeah, so, you know, it's definitely an eye-opener to sort of say, oh God, wow, even brains better than ours, definitely a lot better than ours, can need our help, you know, can really, really take advantage. And, you know, that'll actually really aid them, you know, with their future aspirations.

[13:15] - Steve S

It's specialist knowledge, isn't it? And that's what universities are all about. And that's what we do as well.

[13:21] - James B

Absolutely.

No, I think that was really good. Really good. Really glad that we covered that.

And I think we've got one more, haven't we? We've got one more podcast to come. Yeah. So really looking forward to that.

And then, yeah, hopefully, you know, that's given individuals within the HE sector, you know, some food for thought.

Well, I really enjoyed that. Yeah, it was good.

And already looking forward to the next one. Thank you, Steve. And see you next time!

[13:41] - Steve S

See you next time.

We really hope you enjoyed this episode. Thank you for joining our podcasts.

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