In this episode of The Business Startup Podcast, James and Steve continue their conversation about the experience of starting a startup. They dive deeper into what it really takes to turn an idea into a lasting business.

From defining their vision and refining the company’s focus to facing the realities of growth, this episode explores how the co-founders built a strong foundation of trust, culture, and clarity that continues to guide binary10 today.

It’s a grounded, insightful, and often humorous look at what happens after the excitement of “starting up”, when real business begins.

🎧 Subscribe, listen in, and join us on this journey!

In this episode, we discuss:

• Registering binary10: from Companies House setup to finding the perfect name.

• Early lessons in patience, lean growth, and smart first investments.

• Winning first clients through referrals, relationships, and persistence.

• Delivering excellence before expansion to build lasting success.

• Wearing multiple hats while balancing roles and managing risks.

• Staying resilient through COVID and early business challenges.

• Scaling with integrity through honesty, teamwork, and smart hiring.

EPISODE TRANSCRIPTION:

Disclaimer: This transcript was generated by an AI tool that did its best, but it's never met different British accents it could fully decode. Expect a few funny mistakes. Enjoy!

[00:00] - James B

Hi there, welcome to the Binary 10 podcast. My name is James Blake, I'm the CEO of Binary 10.

[00:06] - Steve S

And my name is Steve Smales, and I am the Chief Operating Officer. Welcome to the series of podcasts where we like to talk about all things data migration related.

[00:16] - James B

And also, we'll talk about the human side of running a business. So, we hope you enjoy.

[00:22] - James B

And well here we are again, Steve, another podcast. Welcome back. Yes, welcome back, really looking forward to this. And a little bit different, you know. I know that we always kick this off because we wanted to promote data migration and talk about all the challenges of data migration. But actually, we did a podcast, didn't we, on the birth of binary10. The birth of binary10. And we actually got some really good sort of feedback and questions. And it made us realise that actually people are also interested in, you know, learning a bit from our experiences of basically being a startup. You know, actually, you know, sort of building a business from scratch. So I think we've agreed that we'll do a bit of a mini-series more on, you know...binary10 itself and some of the learnings that we've had and also a bit more insight into the company, you know and how we operate.

[01:05] - Steve S

And just how you actually start a business what to consider when you first start up and and um and your long-term strategy and we'll come on to more of the long-term stuff later but we wanted to talk about when we first started and the initial challenges didn't we and what what do you need to think about you know when you make that decision we're going to start our own business what do you actually need to consider yeah.

[01:21] - James B

No no this is going to be good this so yeah, so we're slightly coming off the data migration path, but it's all linked, right?

[01:28] - Steve S

That'll probably please people actually that we're not talking about data migration for change!

[01:32] - James B

Sure please some people pleases me just have a little bit of a break for 15 minutes no no um we got to get back to that migration but no you're absolutely right i think so I'm really looking forward to this series so i think we'll focus on the the startups like how we've sort of come to be and then yeah then maybe we'll delve in on a few more podcasts you know maybe get to meet some of the team and and have a good chat around around that as well So yeah, no. Let's do it. Let's talk about it.

[01:54] - Steve S

Yeah, so we did the birth of binary10, and we spoke about, you know, what I suppose what prompted us to think about setting up a data migration specific consultancy. But once we'd made that decision, what were the next steps? So I think you started a limited company, didn't you? So that was the first thing.

[02:07] - James B

No, absolutely. So we did the basics and, you know, we reached out, we registered on Companies House, all those sorts of things you need to do, get a bank account. you know just establish um you know i mean it took us a while to come up with the name.

[02:20] - Steve S

Well, that was the first thing, wasn't it? We spent quite a while discussing the name, wasn't it?

[02:27] - James B

It was. We were talking about. I've got an interest in the universe and space yeah, so I wanted something to do with stars.

[02:30] - Steve S

We were talking about binary star.

[02:32] - James B

Binary star or dog star because it was the brightest one in the sky but yeah it didn't really have the right ring to it.

[02:38] - Steve S

No exactly, and I know you specifically wanted a number in the name didn't you yes, because we'd come across that in another company before. We quite liked that.

[02:45] - James B

Yes, and that's ironic, isn't it? Because, yes, we are Binary10, but actually... Is it?

[02:49] - Steve S

Is it?

[02:50] - James B

It's not, is it? Well, we won't tell people what it is. I'm sure you... Let's see if they can work it out. Their own interpretation. Let's see if they can work it out and come back. But yeah, Binary 10 is kind of a bit of a disguise, isn't it? Yeah. In terms of what it really is. But it's just got a good ring to it. And I think that's important. So, funnily enough, that was probably one of the hardest things we did in the first couple of months. It took quite a while. Just coming up with the name that sort of fit it. Oh.

[03:10] - Steve S

And then there was a website, wasn't there? Because...We couldn't get the website domain that we wanted initially.

[03:15] - James B

Well that's another important point isn't it that you know and obviously for you know a technology company it company you know having having the right website and we we're a bit unusual aren't we our website because we're binary10.uk.com yeah because we thought we had ambitions and we still do uh as we you know breach out into other um countries uh around the world that we could then pull that into the website so that we have that uh division but anyway I mean lots changed since then and um you know we'll see what happens but no I think I just remember early on that I think both of us didn't want to rush into this. You know, we did it the right way. You know, we didn't want to just throw lots of money and, you know, just assume it was going to work. We wanted to sort of approach it a bit organically and just sort of grow it from the start. But, you know, so we didn't try and, you know, employ lots of people to begin with and do lots of things. We just went step by step. And I think our first biggest challenge was getting our first client because at that time we were both individually working on projects as our own independent contractors. So I think The first thing we did, we built up that company, we got all the key information, you know, locked in, the website built. So we had that kind of foundational build. And then step two, I think, was client number one, wasn't it?

[04:23] - Steve S

That's right. And that came through word of mouth from someone who'd left a project that we'd both been working on, moved to another company, and they got us in to talk to the program management there. And there was a bit of a delay. We thought we were going to be starting in sort of, I think it was October, and then it got delayed to... December and then they said, oh, actually, we're not going to use you after all. And then it didn't go so well. So about a month later, we were suddenly called back in and can you start next week, but it's something, you know, when you're starting up a new business, you really do have to consider what is your market and how are you going to get those. those leads? Is it going to be from referrals like how we started or do you need a marketing strategy? And we, you know, we have now got a marketing strategy, but when we first started, we didn't really, it was about, it was trying to maybe even apply for jobs, apply for contracts and see if we could get our company in or to see if we could get anyone who we knew who worked with us before to get us a lead. And that's how we got started.

[05:23] - James B

No, absolutely. That's right. And I think that, you know, what I would say to people is, and even though I'm sure, and I know we got lots of things wrong, don't, you know, don't get me wrong. You're not going to win every time. You're not going to get it right. But I think at the core of what we, you know, our kind of, let's call it an informal business strategy, because we didn't have a formal one to start with. But I think at the beginning, we were both mindful that it was small steps. And I think I would say at that point, it was all about delivering for our clients. Absolutely, yes. building a foundation of trust and building the respect you know we weren't getting too arrogant or above ourselves that we could try and deliver 10 projects and just go out sale sale sale and just win projects and then deal with it no absolutely not you know we needed to make sure that our kind of you know product our methodology our tool set which was a niche market because data migration sometimes is done by you know the big four or systems integrators or sometimes taken on by the clients themselves. G oes wrong quite a few times yeah and with with lots of different contractors so we really had to make sure that our product was was going to work you know yeah and so i think and i think that's really important to anyone that's looking to start up a business is is you know don't rush into it you know give yourself those first couple of years in fact to just focus on your product and what you do best because and I'm doing it well and doing it well well exactly exactly and i think that was our main thing and it still is today i mean don't get don't be wrong yeah We have to deliver for our clients and we have to be, you know, a good supplier. You know, we have to, you know, we want to enjoy it. You know, it's, you know, some of our core values that we're really starting to promote now. I think it's put, you know, it's set us off right. You know, and even though what we're seven years, is it now? Eight years in. Seven, yeah. And sometimes I think, oh, should we have done more? Should we be bigger than we are? Should we do this? But I actually think, no, you know, we're going at the right pace and we're coming into the marketplace and all these different sectors. Because that's another important thing as well, right? is where's your target sector and for us it's a good thing that we've got multiple but it's also hard because it's a lot of different cultures a lot of different people a lot of different sort of network areas so i think that was really important that we we did we we took small steps and we prioritised focusing on the client and delivering

[07:36] - Steve S

Exactly, I think you know particularly. Because as we mentioned, because we didn't have like some formal marketing strategy it was key that we built up our reputation. And once you've got a reputation, then you can do your marketing strategy because you can say, look what we've done. But in those early stages, it's about getting in the initial clients and doing a really, really good job. And then that becomes your marketing because then you get referrals from other people on the project you've just worked on. But then you actually start to get testimonials as well that you can then use in a marketing strategy later on. So the key in those early years is, yes, just do a really, really good job.

[08:13] - James B

Yeah. And I think... and I think be prepared as well like you know obviously we're sat here now you know CEO COO which is which has been a great step recently for both of us but the reality is when we started we were doing everything yeah and even today you know we we still sort of hand out in other areas you know just because we don't you know we're not at the right stage to recruit you know bigger teams like yeah and that will come but you know again it comes back to that point don't throw your race into one basket you mentioned there about how we would still have our own individual contracts because we still, you know... you know I've got a wife I've got kids you know I've got to make sure they're secure and happy and so by doing it gently it actually enables you to to do it better because you don't have extra worries about oh god am i you know gonna put food on the table money all that sort of stuff because that's that's the bread and butter so you know i think that's definitely worked for us and it's meant that you know we can build up gradually and put us in the position we are today where we can really accelerate, you know, which we'll come on to shortly.

[09:10] - Steve S

Yeah but i think but it's a good point you made there about the risk that you got a wife and kids to support you start thinking of a new business it is a risk so you've got to consider those risks and that's again why we thought we would sort of just dip our toes in initially rather than going fully and you know great big business plans business loans taking on debt recruiting loads of people you've got to consider you can recruit a lot of people if it doesn't go well you're getting rid of people you're messing around with people's careers so and And you mentioned also recruitment. And that was one of the early challenges for us. Once we got our first client is we then had to start recruiting. I mean, it was just the two of us initially. We knew we needed extra people for that first project. It was quite a big project. Yeah. And again, because we did this sort of organic growth where we tried to grow gradually. It allowed us to focus on getting really good people in because we only needed one or two people at a time. We didn't need to suddenly go out and recruit 30 people. If you've got to go out and recruit 30 people in a short space of time, one, it's really, really time consuming. But secondly, you may be, you know, are you going to get 30 really, really good people in a short space of time? If you're only after one or two, you can pick the best one or two. And that's helped us get the best people in.

[10:24] - James B

No, and, you know, our organisation, as is many, is, you know, it's all about our people. Yeah. And, you know, not rushing it so that we give people the time to, you know, when they come in, even if they are, you know, we've got many, the best in breed when it comes to data migration. But they don't all necessarily know our methodology, know our tool set. And it's so important that we bring them into that and make sure they're comfortable doing that. So, no, absolutely spot on. And I think, you know, it's the same in, you know, all walks of life, isn't it? About, you know, not getting too confident, not getting too... Because let's be fair, right at the start, we were riding a wave. It was going really well. You know, we were delivering for our clients. People were listening to us. You know, everyone has a doubt of confidence. Like, yeah, I've got this really good thing and I think I'm good at it. But am I good at it? Like, is someone else better? And I think we learned pretty quickly that, yeah, we were riding this wave. It was great. But you've got to be prepared for things to go wrong. And in our case,

[11:20] - Steve S

COVID, wasn't it for us?

[11:21] - James B

Exactly. And, you know, in one way, you can say it wasn't through our own fault. And everyone was impacted by COVID, but we had to react for that. I think we were riding a wave of within the first two years, I think we were up to five projects. Yeah.

[11:35] - Steve S

With another one in tow, just about to kick off.

[11:38] - James B

And then within the space of two months, three months, we went down to one.

[11:42] - Steve S

Well, we went down to zero initially. And then one came back, didn't they?

[11:44] - James B

And one came back. And it's just, you know, that was just awful. And that's where you do hit the lows and you think, oh, is this really possible? you know you have to be logical you have to understand that it wasn't through a fault of our own it's been affecting everybody you know and then we have to go again so there's almost like a mini rebuild yeah and i think that's really important when you're starting up a business that you know things are going to go wrong you know enjoy the good times but be prepared i think for for when things don't go quite as well and that's where honesty is important as well like you mentioned there about recruitment and and people so all our people you know we don't hide that obviously we want to see like you know we know what we're talking about we're good but we're not like a... big four or you know we don't have 20,000 employees or you know 30 years experience and and that's difficult isn't it to try and convince people that you do know what you're talking about even though you might not have you know you individually we have that wealth of experience but i don't think you know as a company at that stage we did.

[12:36] - Steve S

No, absolutely, we're a startup aren't we and it's you've got to convince people that the startup startup that's going somewhere and isn't just going to fly by night and it's going to be finished in six months time.

[12:46] - James B

Exactly and i think and being honest with the people that we employ as well to say look you know we want you to come on board we're you know this is where we're at in in the in in the growth of our business you know and be honest with them that actually you know what you know even our contractors that you know this might only be short term you know we're going to do our best by you and we'll try and get you on more projects but we can't guarantee it you know and i think that i think they really appreciated that and appreciated that open and honesty that they might look at us as oh they're the boss you know we got to do it. but actually we can just talk to them like people and just just be honest and then i think that puts everyone at ease so yeah i think it's getting that balance right of complete honesty and transparency but also with your client as well because i know it's very easy to sell them the world when you might not necessarily have it and i think you've just got to get the balance right but sometimes you don't want to be completely honest because then it might you know not really explain to them what you're about you know they might get nervous so yeah for me it's just about getting that balance right but focusing on the client and delivering and I think that really helped us in those first three four years to set the foundation and then you start and then I think we move on don't we we move on to kind of the next phase which is we've got to grow you know we've we've we're kind of that stage where we're sort of still a startup because we've got you know only a couple of employees we've got lots of subcontractors but all of a sudden you know the the administration of HR, The administration of finance the administration of projects so it's getting too much for us well i think we just didn't cope with it.

[14:12] - Steve S

Yeah, I mean just in the early days it was me and you and then we got sort of contractors in to help out but then once you start to get multiple projects then it becomes a lot more difficult so that's probably something we need to talk about next time and as you said then about the next level of growth we actually you know we're just overloaded and we need to start getting other people in to help manage the business yeah.

[14:30] - James B

No brilliant so no i think that was really good god it took me back a little bit and uh yeah reminded me of some of the journey. How some days. Oh, I know. Absolutely. But no, I'll look forward to the next one then. But I agree. Let's do that on the next podcast. We'll take everyone through that next phase of the journey, which we're sort of going through at the moment, which is how we, you know, is how we grow and transition into what we call more of a small to medium-sized organisation and the business strategy that we have for the next five years. So yeah, no, I look forward to that one, Fun. Yeah, I look forward to that. But no, thanks, Steve. And see you next time.

[15:03] - Steve S

See you next time.

[15:08] - Steve S

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