In this episode, James Blake and Steve Smales are back with Andi Jarvis to unpack the real reasons data migration projects go off the rails and how to keep them on track. From planning pitfalls to one-size-fits-none solutions, they shared hard-earned lessons, practical advice, and a few laughs along the way.

If you’ve ever wondered why moving data is never as simple as it sounds, this one’s for you!

🎧 Tune in, subscribe, and let’s make data migration a little less painful, together.

In this, we discussed:

• Why data migration isn’t just a technical exercise

• The power of planning (and why we sharpen the axe first)

• Why no two projects are ever the same

• How people and culture shape delivery success

• The communication gaps that can sink a go-live

• Why having DM specialists from the start saves time, money, and stress

EPISODE TRANSCRIPTION:

Disclaimer: This transcript was generated by an AI tool that did its best, but it's never met different British accents it could fully decode. Expect a few funny mistakes. Enjoy!

[00:07] - Andi J

Welcome back to the binary10 Podcast. I'm joined by Jamie Blake, CEO, and Steve Smiles, COO. We're here today and we're going to talk about why is data migration so hard?

Jamie, you've been in DM for a long time, so why is it such a hard process?

[00:23] - James B

I mean, God, how long have we got? It is, I mean, it's so many things, but I think primarily if we have to start somewhere, it's that it's always looked at as that technical challenge, you know, of any delivery of a project, where it's so much more than that. You know, data integrates everywhere, and it's about how you bring the technical aspect of, you know, moving data with the business aspect of actually understanding, you know, how do we want to use our data? Where does it need to go? How's it going to be more valuable for us? So for me, I think, you know, what we've seen over the years is it's just a lot of these programs don't get that right. They kind of park data. It's technical. Those people over there will just get it done. And it needs to be so much more collaborative than that. So, you know, for me, that's definitely where I'll start. I mean, there's so many other things, isn't there, Steve?

[01:07]- Steve S

Oh, yeah. There's so many different aspects to data migration. It isn't just the lifting and shifting of the data.

It's the preparation of the data, you know, the analysis in the first place, you know, getting the mappings right, but all the comms around it as well. And, you know, everything's got to fit together. It's like a jigsaw puzzle, and you've got to get all the pieces, you know, joined together properly.

Otherwise, if one thing, you know, is out of sync with the rest, it's, you're going to have trouble.

[01:30] - Andi J

So it sounds like the planning phase of any data migration project is the most important. There's the old phrase, if I had eight hours to chop down a tree, I'd spend six hours shouting in my axe. Is that true of data migration?

[01:42] - Steve S

Oh, absolutely. And yeah, I mean, the planning is absolutely key to getting a successful data migration project because it's not just the planning of the data migration aspect itself, but how it interacts with all the other work streams as well. So the planning is absolutely key. I mean, anything to add on that, Jamie?

[01:57] - James B

Yeah, I think, I mean, I've got an example of a company that I was at, and I think it's that thing where IT projects are a bit different and they're never given. You know, this isn't just about data migration, you know, this is IT in general. You know, time isn't given up front to plan these things properly and think about how is this going to be delivered?

How are we going to bring it all together? And it does make, it reminds me, I was working for this company where, you know, 10 floors up in the building, and we looked out the window, and there was a building site outside, you know, huge, you know, huge office block building. And the sad thing was, you know, we were 12 months into our project delivery, and that building was complete.

You know, the whole thing had just gone up this whole time and we were still, I think we hadn't even got out of sort of user acceptance testing. And so, you know, it just makes you realize, you know, and I remember speaking to a couple of people down there thinking, God, that went up quick. And I was saying, you know, it only took like 12 minutes.

Well, no, it didn't. It didn't actually take 12 months. It took two years because we spent a year planning.

They spent like a year pulling it all together before they'd even, you know, laid the foundations, whatever it might be. And I think that's such an important message. Like I said, not just for DM, but for all IT projects, you know, give that planning, give yourself time to, you know, really understand how this is going to be delivered, who's going to be delivering it.

But what we come across all the time is, you know, the IT project's already started. You know, they're already, the system's already chosen. They're already doing some design.

And then they go, oh, actually, we've got to move the data into it. So, how do we do that? And that is a, you know, if you don't get that part wrong, you're just going to cause delays and cause problems.

[03:26] - Steve S

Yeah. And I think if you do your planning and you do it without maybe sort of experts in data migration, then it's not going to be planned properly because we'll be aware of things that, you know, you need to have in all projects that maybe sort of general IT project managers won't be aware of unless they've done a lot of data migration before. It's a specialist thing.

[03:44] - Andi J

That's an important thing about the specialism, isn't it, is that there is no one-size-fits-all when it comes to data migration.

[03:49] - Steve S

Absolutely, because it's, every project is different. And, you know, not just in terms of the, you know, the scale of the project and the timelines, but just the type of system. But every, even when you're doing the same systems, you know, the same legacy system going to the same target system that you might have done before, but the client's data is completely different and it can be stored in different ways.

There's no sort of, like I say, one-size-fits-all.

There's no such thing in data migration. Every project has its own little nuances.

[04:17] - Andi J

And even within industries and sectors as well, you could be doing a data migration project within retail, and it would be very different to be within education, wouldn't it?

[04:26] - Steve S

There's different factors involved. So retail, you know, you've got sort of, certainly when you're doing your cutover, you've got to think about all the store opening times and, you know, are the stores open on Saturdays, Sundays, that sort of thing. Whereas, you know, education is completely different sector, you know, there's absolutely nothing in common really with retail.

You know, you might have sort of commonality in the systems they're using, but not how they use them or how the business operates. I mean, Jamie, you've got good examples of higher education, haven't you?

[04:52] - James B

Yeah, no, absolutely. And I think, you know, another word to use here is that culture, you know, something that we've learned a lot. Like I said, you know, we have a binary 10 methodology.

We have a, you know, an ideal way that we want to deliver data migration. The reality is when you go into clients and you go into their projects, there is a different culture, you know, and you have to, I don't know what the right phrase is, but you have to bend a little bit into that culture so that you can sort of fit in with their puzzle. But where we've got to try and get it right is that we don't bend too far.

And actually we come away from our core principles of, you know, how we have to deliver. But, you know, as part of that culture is people, you know, it's just making sure that, you know, whilst we're there, and I think this is where the binary 10 methodology is different, you know, whilst we're there to focus and get data migration done, we're also looking over the shoulders and understanding the different areas like, you know, like testing, build of the system, you know, even business change and comms, as you say, just making sure that, you know, we know what works well, not just for data, but these other areas and just, you know, holding the hand and, you know, offering support and advice, they may not take it, but, you know, to try and, you know, because for us to be successful, it's about those other areas being successful too. So I think that's like a really important bit, but it's getting it right. Because, you know, if you push it too much, you know, it's classic, like man management, or people think, oh, you know, you're doing my job for me.

So I think there's a bit of an art in that. And that's difficult, right? And that's why DM is hard.

[06:13] - Steve S

And you get different levels of experience, you know, within the same company, but with different companies, you know, some companies will have been through data migrations before, or some of the key people might have been, so they'll have a bit more knowledge of how it should work and a bit more understanding of, say, how to do their reconciliations. Other people never done anything like this before, because obviously, IT departments are used to IT projects. But when you're doing, say, a finance data migration, finance people, they won't have worked on IT projects before.

So it's, you know, you have to bring them along with you. But you know, there's more to it than just the actual shifting of the data. It's all the people side of things as well.

[06:53] - Andi J

So data takes up this hugely central role in most organisations now, and people have always had that central role in organisations, yet it seems a lot of data migration projects still focus just on the data. When you're working with teams of people involved, often some of them who are maybe helping out on the side of the desk while they're still doing a day job, how do you help them through that process? Because nobody wakes up in the morning saying, I wish I had more to do today.

[07:14] - James B

I mean, you know, there's no, you know, one answer fits all. But I think it's all as Steve said, you know, and I've used the phrase hand-holding, you know, lots of people use that phrase, but what does that actually mean? And I think it is, it's those one-to-one sessions.

It's, you know, people like us or people that work for us, you know, experts, you know, as Steve said in that field, you know, arrange a meeting with these people, you know, sit them down, show them the information on the screen, you know, try and walk them through. And I think it's that regurgitation, you know, so we always try and present back to our clients, you know, data migration is very technical and difficult, you know, but as part of our methodology, we actually kind of split that in half. We keep it high level for certain members of the project that we know it will relate to or easier to understand.

And then there'll be certain people that are maybe more technical or maybe more into the numbers that other areas we can show. So I think, you know, it's understanding your audience, but it's, it's that constant kind of recheck in, like, are you getting this, you know, you understanding this, is everything going as you would expect? And that's what hand-holding is about.

And I think it's, it's just so important because as Steve says, you know, a lot of, you know, companies we come into, you know, we've had a few where we've been very lucky and these people have been switched on, they understand it, they've done it before. But most of the time they haven't. So part of our role isn't just coming in and doing our work, it's helping others, you know, understand our work, which will help them do theirs better.

[08:27] - Steve S

Yeah, and also the coming back to the planning, because that's really key. And you mentioned about, you know, people got their BAU to do as well. And that's where the planning comes in, because it's not just about the plan of the activities, but it's who's doing it.

And is that resource available? And certain, we've seen it on a lot of projects, haven't we Jamie, where certain key people within the sort of the client's organisation, there's sort of bottlenecks and there's too much placed on certain individuals. So we will try and help with that planning of, you know, when do we need people?

How long are we going to need them for? And that just needs to be sort of built into the plan as well, the actual resource plan.

[09:01] - Andi J

So the planning, the people and the toolkit that you bring are the key factors really in making sure that a project runs successfully.

[09:09] - Steve S

Yeah, and the communications, because if people aren't talking to each other, things are going to get missed. So it's keeping those sort of key communication channels open all the time. And everyone adhering to that as well.

[09:20] - Andi J

And is there an external communication role within that, within the wider organisation, so people understand that systems are changing, things are moving?

[09:27] - James B

Absolutely, because, you know, when you turn these systems on live, and you might have users that have not been part of the project, they haven't been there for the 12 months or two years and understanding all the challenges and the changes, and what's coming. So that's where training is obviously really important to make sure that, you know, they understand how it's going to work. Because if you don't do that, what you're going to cause is in those first sort of one or two months post going live, people are just going to be raising issues left, right and centre, you know, causing disruption, where actually you're in a hypercare period where your focus needs to be in just, you know, making sure the core, you know, processes, people getting paid, you know, suppliers getting paid, employees, all those sorts of things are like at the top of your list. So it's so important to engage those people as early as you can and get them confident on that new system with the data.

Because then it just prevents, you know, like just being, you know, that's the last thing we want, you know. And fortunately enough, we haven't, you know, seen that really, you know, when we've delivered. But we've heard of all those horror stories where the systems just aren't working.

And, you know, help desk is inundated with calls, and then it becomes a really, really problematic, you know, really problematic area. So yeah.

[10:28] - Andi J

So it might be quite difficult to reduce it down just to one thing. But before we close, I want to ask you both, if you had just one piece of advice you could give to a company that's looking at the data migration projects in the next year, what would that be, Steve?

[10:37] - Steve S

I think, and it comes probably back to the planning again, but start your planning early, start thinking about data migration early, and getting people involved in those discussions who've been through it before. And Jamie, any advice?

[10:53] - James B

Yeah, you know, obviously, echo that. But I'd also, you know, it's a people thing.

It really is a people thing. And aligned to that planning, it's about getting the right people early. And again, not just, you know, naturally, there's a bit of siloing, because everyone's got their job to do.

But get that collaboration, get people understanding each other's area and how it impacts their area. It's, yeah, it's absolutely critical.

[11:17] - Andi J

Thank you very much.

[11:19] - James B

Thank you. Thank you.

[11:20] - Steve S

See you next time. See you next time.

[11:24] - James B

Thanks so much for joining us on our podcast. If you'd like to know more, please visit us at binary10.uk.com. And if you'd like to come and see more of our podcast, please subscribe.